This interview is published in cooperation with Tygodnik Powszechny.
Alisher Shahir worked for Subhe Kabul Daily and in 2020 was named one of Afghanistan’s five best journalists. He also worked with leading Polish weekly Tygodnik Powszechny, accompanying journalists Paweł Pieniążek and Agnieszka Pikulicka-Wilczewska on their travels in Afghanistan and co-writing articles with Pieniążek.
Masooma Sultani worked for media and organisations campaigning for (particularly female) Afghan journalists’ rights and was also a women’s rights activist. The couple’s son Kianush was born on 21 March 2021.
Shahir and Sultani, who are among the more than 1,000 Afghans evacuated by and brought to Poland, spoke to Paweł Pieniążek in early September.
Paweł Pieniążek: We are speaking in Kraków, where you arrived a few days ago, after leaving the refugee centre where you were in quarantine. A lot has happened in the last few weeks. On that Saturday, 14 August, the Taliban were rapidly taking control of provinces and were very close to Kabul. The Americans and their international allies were due to be withdrawing from Afghanistan in a few days…
Alisher Shahir: In the evening we watched the news and television and browsed social media. We were following the Taliban gains in neighbouring provinces.
Did you think they would capture Kabul too?
AS: Yes, but we didn’t think it would fall in one day and President Ashraf Ghani would flee… Before we went to bed, I joked to my wife, “When we wake up the city will be full of Taliban.”
What changed overnight?
Masooma Sultani: Everything looked as it did before. There were no Taliban. So Ali went to his newsroom and I went to a café to meet a male friend. We ordered a coffee and cake and checked the procedures and possibilities of applying for a Canadian visa. We met the conditions, but it was too late. The Taliban could enter the city at any time, so there was no time to apply.
Suddenly there was a commotion in the café and on the street. I looked at my phone and saw lots of unanswered calls, mostly from my family. The internet was very weak, there was no signal.
AS: The telecommunications networks could hardly cope. Everyone was calling each other, trying to understand what was happening.
MS: When I finally got through, Ali, my sisters and my mum asked where I was. Then I managed to get onto Facebook. Everyone was writing one thing: the Taliban are coming. The situation changed quickly. Hardly had I read they were on the edge of the city when the news broke that they were in the city. And a moment later they were nearing the centre.
What happened in the café?
MS: My friend and I were completely shocked. I had a hijab on loosely, showing my hair. After reading that information I immediately fixed it so nothing would stick out. I told my friend we had to get out straightaway. The Taliban wouldn’t like it that a married woman was sitting in a café with another man. They could have flogged us for that. I hurriedly threw my phones and computer into my bag. We quickly paid and left.
There were already traffic jams in the city.
MS: We wanted to catch a taxi but none were free. Our house is far away from that café. The drivers with a free space in their cars didn’t want to go that way because the Taliban were coming from there. I don’t know how long it took but finally someone agreed to take me. When I got home, I called Ali to find out where he was.
AS: I said I was trying to get home.
MS: You came to get me after half an hour. By that time the Taliban were next to the café where I’d been sitting.
Ali, what were you doing in that time?
AS: In the morning life went on as it had before. The only thing I couldn’t do was get money out of the bank. I went there before work, but there were about 300 people in the queue, so I gave up. In any case they soon announced that the banks were closing.
Was anything different in your office?
AS: No. All the staff, of both sexes, came in that day. At 9 we heard that the Taliban were at the gates of Kabul. Then my colleagues’ phones started ringing. Their families were begging them to come home as soon as possible. But we stayed to follow the news. I was worried about Masooma, so I called her, but she didn’t answer. I was in touch with the rest of the family and knew they were safe.
An hour later, we received confirmation that the Taliban were in Kabul. We were dumbfounded, we didn’t understand what was happening. The only news from the presidential palace was a tweet saying that the situation was under control. Nobody believed that. The streets were gridlocked, offices, supermarkets, shops and bazaars were closed. People simply ran home.
Before 11, we received confirmation from three sources in the presidential palace that President Ghani had fled the country. We couldn’t believe it. Although we had three sources, we didn’t want to publish that. It seemed unlikely and we didn’t want to spread untrue information, especially of that magnitude.
What was happening in the newsroom?
AS: We collected the computers, destroyed documents, because we didn’t want them to fall into the wrong hands. Suddenly we heard shooting on the street. Everyone in the newsroom began to flee. I didn’t even manage to shut the lid of my laptop on my desk. On the street the Taliban were shooting into the air. People were terrified. Many of them had never seen a Taliban fighter up close before. For more than 20 minutes I tried to catch a taxi, until I finally managed to get home.
Masooma was there already.
MS: I was in such shock that I couldn’t even cry. Ali tried to calm me down. He said everything would be OK.
But you didn’t believe that?
[Ali shakes his head]
MS: Of course not! He just wanted to calm me down. After a little while my dad, mum, brother and sisters came over. We are journalists so they thought we’d have the most up-to-date information. They asked what was happening. They were concerned for our safety, as were we.
Why did you feel threatened?
AS: At Subhe Kabul Daily, where I worked, I had a column describing the difficult experiences of people during Taliban rule in the 1990s. In addition, a university friend had joined the Taliban. He knew almost everything about me. Recently he wrote me strange messages. He complained about me criticising the Taliban and called on me to abide by Sharia law. Our mutual acquaintance said that he’d passed our names on to the group. I knew if the Taliban came to power that sooner or later they would use those letters.
MS: We were also worried because of our activity on social media, I would very often appear on photos without a hijab. We gave interviews in which we were presented as a colourful couple. But mostly it was because we worked in the media. And on top of that, in recent years I was monitoring media for an American company.
What did you decide to do?
MS: We looked for a way to leave Afghanistan. We wrote to our friends there and abroad asking for help. Everyone said they were working on our case, but there was no fast and positive reaction. When I then saw photos from Kabul airport, I thought that getting on a plane was simply impossible. We spent the night at home, but the next day we hid at another flat. Many of our neighbours knew we worked in the media. That could have been dangerous.
On Tuesday you received confirmation from the Polish embassy in New Delhi that you were on the evacuation list.
MS: That was thanks to you, Paweł. It must have been 4 p.m. when an embassy staff member called. He then sent an email saying where to go and when.
The plan was to depart at 6 a.m. the next day.
We went back home. We packed a few things. Ali and I took clothes for three or four days. And milk, nappies and clothes for Kianush. We searched for a taxi for a long time and asked relatives with cars if they’d take us to the airport. But everyone refused because they feared the Taliban, especially as it was past 10 p.m.
The Taliban announced a curfew.
AS: I told our friend that we had a car, so we would collect him, drive together, leave him the keys, and he would leave the car in our parking space. But he didn’t want to either.
MS: I told Ali that we had to find something because it was our only chance to leave. I didn’t want to lose it. I was willing even to go to the airport by foot, although it was far and we’d have to walk for hours.
AS: When I called one taxi service, they wanted $100.
MS: Previously for a trip to the airport you had to pay 150, maximum 300 afghanis ($1.70 and $3.40). And we didn’t have that much money. All the cash we had was 1,150 afghanis ($13). The rest was in the bank. We’d never thought about getting more cash out, because the situation wasn’t that bad.
AS: We searched for a taxi for an hour. One driver agreed to go for 300 afghanis.
You left after 11 p.m.
MS: When we drove past Taliban fighters, I took Ali’s hand and held it tight. I was crying. We were very scared we wouldn’t make it to the airport. So my younger brother went with us. We agreed that if the Taliban wanted to arrest us, we’d beg them to leave our son Kianush to my brother and let them both go.
You arrived at the airport around midnight. You were supposed to find the Abbey Gate and go through it to the military part of the airport.
MS: We thought all the people crowded outside the airport didn’t have the documents need to fly. As we had everything we needed it would be as before. I mean we’d be let in, once inside we’d go through the gates, check in and that’s all. When we saw the crush outside the airport, we gave the luggage to my brother, who took the taxi back home. We just took the suitcase with Kianush’s things.
AS: We had to carry him the whole time and make sure he wasn’t crushed by the crowd. People weren’t taking notice of each other. When the Taliban shot, the crowd scattered. Some fell and were trampled. We saw a woman falling onto razor barbed wire. There was lots of blood everywhere and her child was crying.
Did you manage to find the entrance you were supposed to go through immediately?
MS: We didn’t know where the Abbey Gate was because we’d never been to the military airport. The taxi driver had taken us to another gate. There were maybe 300 people there. Most were young men without families. They didn’t have documents, maybe some paper in their hands. We tried to find out if we were in the right place, but it wasn’t easy.
I looked for information online, made calls and sent messages, but no one could help. Only the journalist Jagoda Grondecka [who was in Kabul] sent us the location. We were sure we were in the wrong place, but we didn’t know how to get to the one on the map. A taxi driver said he’d take us to the right entrance. It wasn’t far, but he wanted 300 afghanis.
So you only had 650 afghanis left.
When we reached the other entrance, we saw lots of people. The driver told us to give him the money and get out immediately because we were there. Outside shots were being fired into the air. I told him to give us a minute, they’d stop shooting and we’d get out. He answered that shots were fired all the time here, so we should get out. We did. I sat next to the cars, held Kianush in my arms and cried. The shots were so close to us, terribly loud. Every one made me shudder. Awful.
And that wasn’t the right entrance either?
MS: We asked everyone if this was the Abbey Gate. They didn’t know. They just said it was the “American gate”.
AS: We talked to Jagoda and she showed us the exact location. We showed it to one driver, because we still didn’t know exactly how to get there. He said he knew the place well and would take us there. But that wasn’t the entrance either, just the main gate leading to the civilian airport.
In the end we went to another taxi driver. He promised to take us to the gate we were looking for for 200 afghanis. And that’s what happened.
What did you do with the last 50 afghanis?
MS: The next day we bought water. Then we had nothing left. We asked other families evacuating to Poland to buy us water and we’d pay them back after arriving. Of course we received it – for free. I was terribly hungry, but we had nothing to eat. I wanted water most. That was the most important thing.
Were there lots of people waiting for the flight to Poland?
AS: Maybe 15 people. The men stood in a circle and their families sit in the middle.
MS: It was a very small group. We thought perhaps that was everyone and so few people were flying to Poland. Jagoda was in touch with representatives of Poland, the entrance was near, there weren’t many people. It seemed everything would go smoothly.
AS: But we had to wait, because more families were arriving, and someone from Poland was supposed to come to the gate around 7 and take us in. An hour before the appointed time we set off for the gate. It was terribly crowded.
The 5-year-old Afghan evacuee who accidentally ate poisonous mushrooms in Poland has died, the hospital treating him has informed.
His 6-year-old brother, who yesterday underwent a liver transplant, has an "unfavourable prognosis" https://t.co/ME8V6ffADe
— Notes from Poland 🇵🇱 (@notesfrompoland) September 2, 2021
But you didn’t see anyone at the gate.
AS: We shouted “Poland”, but nobody appeared. A British soldier said that if we wanted to go inside, we had to have a confirmation from inside. Somebody had to escort us. We couldn’t go in alone.
MS: I showed him all the documents. Kianush and I were crying. He said that without someone from Poland he couldn’t do anything. He asked us to leave. Around the same time, foreign soldiers standing in front of the airport asked the Taliban to chase people away because in the crowd they couldn’t find those who had to go inside.
How was that?
MS: An Afghan working with the foreign armies climbed onto the gate and spoke to the Taliban standing in the vicinity to help them. Then nearby Taliban drove over. They were armed and with whips. They shot into the air and pushed people away. One started hitting Ali on the back. He took a swipe at me too, but Ali started shouting why did he want to beat his wife and baby. I was crying so loudly, asking them to stop. I had to stop Ali, because he was very angry and would have got in a fight with them.
AS: They were awful. They pushed everyone. They didn’t care if it was a women or child.
MS: I couldn’t understand what we’d done wrong that we had to deal with this. I told Ali we should go home. We’d buy as much food as we could, lock all the doors and not go outside. I asked if we could go back, because we wouldn’t push our way inside carrying a baby. Ali answered that if the situation didn’t calm down soon, we’d go home.
AS: At that point we didn’t believe we’d manage to get into the airport.
MS: The Taliban were beating, shooting, they didn’t care about other people’s lives. So many were injured. They hit one person from our group with a rifle and broke his arm. That scared us even more. We didn’t want something to happen to us, and especially to Kianush.
AS: It was also hot. We were standing in the sun. Without food and practically without water.
MS: Between 4 a.m. and 2 p.m. Kianush didn’t drink any milk. He was crying the whole time. He was so tired that he was making noises we’d never heard before. His head was sunburnt.
What did you do after the Taliban pushed you away from the entrance?
MS: We sat by the road. Jagoda drove to the city to collect more people. We stayed together with other families who were supposed to be flying to Poland. We contacted the embassy in New Delhi and other people to help us and not forget about us.
It was getting dark and you were going to spend another night by the airport.
MS: We were all together at a nearby car park. Jagoda said our flight might be in the night, so it was better to step back. We went in small groups to check the situation at the gate. In the night we heard that the flight would be at 6 a.m.
AS: We hadn’t slept since leaving home.
MS: Instead, we were thinking all the time how to get inside, because we felt we’d got stuck. Ali and others were going and checking the situation, then telling us what was happening. Around 2 at night they went towards the gate, came back and said there were no Taliban there now. That we could get to the gate freely. It was a chance.
AS: We had the experience from the previous night. That if we came later we’d miss the plane again, because in the meantime at least one had departed. When I saw the Taliban had packed up their post, I went straight back and told Masoom, “Get up, we’re going”. Others didn’t want to, because there was a lot of time left till 6. I said that by the time we got there it would be 6.
The crowd was unimaginable. We could hardly catch our breath. I had to hold Kianush above my head. We pushed our way through for three hours until we got near to the gate where the British soldiers were standing. We got there at 6 a.m., as requested. I sent the group a message that we were there and there was a chance to go in. We showed the British soldier all our documents. He said that if he saw someone from Poland, he’d call them straightaway and tell them their passengers were here.
MS: Kianush was crying like mad. We asked those soldiers to let us sit near to them, because our baby was exhausted, and we could hardly breathe. They let us go past their positions, but not through the gate, and sit on the ground.
AS: They told us to wait for Polish soldiers. They appeared around 7. I said “Thank God!”
MS: We were all crying then, Kianush, Ali and me. A female Polish soldier took our son and poured water on his head, because he was looking really bad by then. I couldn’t stop crying, although they told us we were safe and everything was fine.
Were you relieved after passing through the gate?
MS: I still wasn’t sure we’d manage to get to Poland. Everyone was very nice. They reassured us. I asked them to take us as soon as possible. But we waited for the others.
AS: Before 8 we were at the airport, but the plane wasn’t till after 4 p.m.
Were you sure by then that you’d get out of the country?
MS: After take-off I was scared that the Taliban might shoot the plane down. Only when we were high in the air did I say to myself, “They won’t reach us now”.
The original version of this interview can be seen here. Translated by Ben Koschalka.
Main image credit: Jacek Taran/Tygodnik Powszechny
