By Agnieszka Wądołowska
In this exclusive interview, Notes from Poland revisits Alisher Shahir and Masooma Sultani, who, along with their infant son Kianush, were among more than 1,000 Afghans evacuated and brought to Poland after the return of the Taliban.
We previously published the story of their evacuation from Kabul, where Alisher worked for Subhe Kabul Daily and was in 2020 named one of Afghanistan’s five best journalists, and Masooma Sultani worked for media and organisations campaigning for (particularly female) Afghan journalists’ rights. We talked to the couple about their first months in Poland, the challenges they face and support they receive, and their wish to be able to go home one day.
Agnieszka Wądołowska: You were among the 1,000 Afghans evacuated by the Polish military from Kabul due to the fact that you previously worked with Polish journalists. Was it dangerous for you to help the foreign press?
Masooma Sultani: It was really hard because of the subjects they were working on. They reported from the Taliban territories and from other provinces in which some clashes and fights were taking place. So we went with them to all of those spots because they were foreigners. We just wanted them to be safe. This was a big responsibility for us and we had to be smart to make sure nothing bad would happen to them.
You know, there were so many trips until 2021. I remember it was two months before the Taliban took Kabul that Paweł [Pieniążek, a Polish journalist] texted me saying he would be in Afghanistan in August or September and that he would need our cooperation again. We said OK, but it never happened.
In mid-August, you were already in Poland and it was Paweł fixing things for you.
Alisher Shahir: We never imagined it like this.
MS: Never. Every time when we talked to Polish journalists we worked with, we asked them about Poland – about the situation, its culture, how it was different from Afghanistan. But never did we imagine this day that one day we would go to Poland and our Polish friends would now be helping us.
I hope that now that you’re here you feel safe. Can you tell me what it’s been like since you arrived?
AS: First, after we arrived in Warsaw on 20 August, we were moved to a refugee camp that was about two hours’ drive from the capital. We went through obligatory quarantine time for 14 days and then our friend Paweł took us from there and brought us to Kraków.
What’s your status now?
MS: We have visas, but they’re only for three months. What’s most important, we are secure. We are now having a good life here, but we are worried about our future. You know, we’re worried about our education, about our jobs. We are looking for language courses and some ways to continue our education.
You know, we are very, very eager to write for Polish media about Afghanistan now about the situation that is going on there. We have lots of sources, we talk with them every day, but there isn’t much that we can do until we are given our permanent documents. At this point we can’t have an official contract; we can’t work for any companies or media.
What are you allowed to do?
AS: We just can post about the situation of Afghanistan on our social media, and we’re working on our YouTube channel. We have lots of viewers; some of our videos get like 100k views.
You know, for a month we didn’t have any updates on our YouTube channel, and our friends were asking us to tell them about Kraków and Poland – how are the people, how’s the food, how’s the weather?
So we were looking for some stuff and with the help of friends, we bought a little equipment to produce some materials. We’ve published one or two of our first videos from Kraków. This is our daily routine now and we’ll continue like this until we can officially work.
Do you know how long you will have to wait for a work permit?
AS: According to the document, we are allowed to stay for three months. So it means that after three months we will have another…
MS: We’re not sure.
I see. What support have you received from the state? Is someone in touch with you or helping you on a regular basis?
MS: At first, we met the Polish soldiers at the airport, and they were all really very nice people and very kind. The government? Yeah, they are in touch with us, I mean, they only support us with money. We get the refugee benefit every month. It would be OK for a single person, but it’s not much for a family.
AS: It’s 700 zloty (€150) a month per person
MS: But for us it is 500, because we’re a family. I don’t know why. So we receive 1500 and that’s all. Of course, it would be hard to manage with just this. You can’t really rent a house for that or pay for courses… It’s difficult.
So how do you manage?
AS: Tygodnik Powszechny [a Polish weekly magazine that Sultani and Shahir previously worked with] also helped us a lot. They ask every day: do you need some money, can we help you by buying something, e.g. clothes or food. Everything that we need, they just help us.
But we prefer to work ourselves, to arrange everything, and earn money. The only problem is now having the permit for work and education.
Agnieszka [Pikulicka, a Polish journalist] helped us. We’re living in her flat, and she moved back with her mother. It’s difficult for her. It’s a human thing that she’s doing for us, giving us a place to stay, but we are not comfortable with being a burden. We tried to work, and every day I send emails saying that we want to work.
Are you allowed to do crowdfunding campaigns or seek some other ways to raise funds?
Tygodnik did that for us. They did fundraising for my equipment for my YouTube channel. But it’s also tricky as we’re not allowed to use the money they got through fundraising till we have our documents. See this mobile – they gave it to us, so I can use it for filming for now.
We are lucky to have friends like Pawel, Agnieszka and Tygodnik. Lots of Afghans are in camps [Polish state centres for foreigners]. They can’t even have their own food in there. One of our friends is in one of the camps. He said that the money the government gave him isn’t enough. It’s difficult for them.
At first in the camp, they – the immigration officers – didn’t tell us anything. We would ask about our destiny. We asked them if we decided to leave the camp, would we be able to rent a flat and when we would get our papers. They just said they didn’t know. I had a feeling that they weren’t sure about the procedures.
Are you also in touch with your family that stayed in Afghanistan? Are they safe?
MS: Yes, of course, our families are still in Afghanistan, and we are trying to find some way to get them out. You know, sometimes we feel we’re not good people because we left our mother, father and my brother and sister alone in Afghanistan. We just came here to save our lives
However, my mum told us that our safety is the most important – that we should go. But we are very worried. We hear about cases of the Taliban looking for journalists who work for foreigners. If they don’t find them, they take their family members and then they disappear.
One of my sisters and one of my brothers are still there, in Afghanistan. My sister had this dream to be a doctor; she was in 12th grade. Now each time I contact her, she tells me she is not allowed to go to school anymore or finish this class, and she won’t be able to apply for university. She lost all hope.
My brother was in the first year of university, but now he is at home as well. And, yeah, we’re trying. We have asked the Polish government if it is possible to get them a visa. We hope they will be able to join us. You know it is just hard; my family is there, we are alone here.
What about your family, Ali?
AS: They’re in Ghazni province. One of my brothers was in Kabul. He graduated from the medical university in Kabul and he was working with some medical organisations. He would go to the clinics and survey the clinics and improve equipment for them.
So when the Taliban came, he tried to escape from Kabul. He searched lots of ways to get out of the country. His wife and one-year-old girl fled to Pakistan, but he could not and he is in one of the provinces of Afghanistan now.
But now the border is closed, right?
When the Taliban came, at first the border was still open. Now it’s closed, but people go illegally anyway. His wife and child are already there, too.
And are you planning to stay in Poland? A lot of refugees are now aiming for Germany and other EU countries.
AS: It depends. Now we are here and we are safe. But we don’t have our future.
It’s a very big decision and we want to make a good one. The main issue is a job. So if we’ll be sure that we can have our own job and we can continue education, we will stay.
MS: We want to continue our jobs as journalists. But how can we if the government doesn’t have any plan for us? How should we manage?
You know, from the beginning when we arrived here, in the compound for refugees, we were asking the immigration people about the plan for us. They didn’t know and it’s still the same. We don’t know what will happen.
Did you receive any medical or psychological help?
AS: The only healthcare support we got was in the camp, when we arrived in Poland. You know the situation at the airport was very, very difficult and horrible. Kianush had his head burnt – there was so much sun. The doctors in the camp gave him some cream.
Masooma was having nightmares because of the Taliban, it was the first time that she saw the Taliban firing in front of her. So when we came to Kraków, we asked our friends for a visit to a psychologist.
MS: It wasn’t by the government. Also when I or Kianush got sick we just called someone from Tygodnik or some other friends, but officials don’t even know about it.
You said you’re worried about your education.
MS: Yes, we applied for a Master’s degree at the Jagiellonian University. They said that for the current year admission is closed, but they’re trying to enrol us, or we can just attend some classes unofficially and next year we can enrol officially. They offered us some language courses. So we are learning Polish now.
It’s hard, right?
AS: Maybe, but for me, it’s very interesting. Also, you know the pronunciation is not that challenging for us. We have a lot of similar sounds in Farsi. Sz, si, cz – we have all these sounds in Persian, in Farsi, so the only difficulty is the grammar because for every word there are so many forms. So that’s difficult, yeah. You want to start a sentence, but you already have to think about the ending of the sentence.
Do you think you will ever be able to go back home, go back to Afghanistan?
It’s very, very…
I’m sorry for asking such difficult questions.
It’s fine, it’s just terrible now. If peace comes…we’d love to go back to our country, but right now there is no telling.
Now it’s very dangerous, very dangerous. Even for our families, we worry about our family, that one day they could take them hostage and ask: “Where is your son? Where is your daughter? They worked for foreigners!” So now it’s not possible.
MS: But one day, when peace comes and the Taliban are pushed back, we want to go back to our country. You know, before the Taliban came, everything was normal, we had lots of plans for the future. We had lots of dreams for Kianush, to grow up in our country among his grandmothers, uncles and aunts.
AS: In 2020 Afghanistan was in the negotiation under the name of the Afghan peace process with the United States, and we were very optimistic that we would have peace in our land.
That’s why we decided to have a baby. We didn’t want our child to go through such situations; we didn’t plan for our child to grow up like this. We want him to grow up in a peaceful place.
I really hope that one day I will be able to take my son by the hand, and we’ll go together and I will show him my office, and we will go and play in a park that will be in our land, in our country.
Main image credit: Jakub Włodek / Agencja Gazeta
Agnieszka Wądołowska is deputy editor of Notes from Poland. She has previously worked for Gazeta.pl and Tokfm.pl and contributed to Gazeta Wyborcza, Wysokie Obcasy, Duży Format, Midrasz and Kultura Liberalna
